It wasn’t bombing pearl harbour that screwed them, it was the fact the aircraft carriers weren’t there when it happened.
SewerSage on
US oil sanctions basically made their empire unsustainable. FDR knew this when he implemented them. The American public didn’t support going to war, but FDR figured he’d just piss off the Axis until they declared war on us. This is why he did the lend lease program in Europe as well.
lesefant on
even Yamamoto thought it was a bad idea
Capable_Ad4800 on
To be fair they recieved no such note from no one
aarrtee on
“*What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible that they do not realize that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?*” -Churchill
potatodudemanguy on
I cannot remember his name, but a member of the Japanese navy studied in the US and UK and (very simply paraphrased) was asked if they could beat the American Pacific fleet. He basically said yeah but that by the time they destroy the first one, the Americans would have built three more.
Japan lost to the American industrial complex.
Frendowastaken on
Japan knew it was a terrible decision, but had to make a move to keep their war machine running on resources, those resources were located in allied territories.
The Japanese general staff realised while planning, everything would have to go perfect for them in order to win.
But that it was better to act now then to wait and losing even more strength.
Klenkogi on
They had no choice
Same-Pizza-6724 on
Everyone gangsta till the Enola Gay rocks up and drops a star on yo ass.
Boggie135 on
They touched the boats
TheState304 on
If I remember correctly, Yamamoto gave Japan about 6 months to get America to negotiate after the first strike before things would go down hill. He knew they wouldn’t keep up with American logistics once it got going. The goal was never to defeat/invade America, just to make sure the US couldn’t interfere with their expansion. To that end they had to get as much territory as quickly as possible, make the cost of war appear too high, and end the conflict at the negotiating table before America could hit them with a tsunami of supplies, ships, and bodies.
Given anti-war sentiment and the age of the US Pacific fleet it wasn’t the worst idea. Yamamoto still didn’t like it, but we saw how that turned out in the end
RueUchiha on
It was kind of a bad idea, but there weren’t many other options for Imperial Japan if they wanted to keep their war machine going. Allied territory had resourses they needed, and in an ideal world for them, an attack on Pearl Harbor would cripple the US Pacific fleet and by Japan time to fortify their military to be in a more advantagous position.
Unfortunately for Japan, they didn’t do as much damage as they would have liked to the US pacific fleet, and no US aircraft carrier (with hindsight, by far the most important target to sink) was stationed in the port at the time of the attack. The US pacific fleet was not crippled and Japan payed the price. It was a gamble they just so happened to lose.
And there was no way Japan could have predicted that the US industrial complex would be beast enough to be able to pump out an aircraft carrier every month, even though they knew long term the US had better industry anyway; they didn’t know it was “aircraft carrier every month” good.
Big_Red_Machine_1917 on
The attack could have been more successful, if the Japanese had hit the fuel storage that would have really crippled the Pacific fleet far more than losing ships. But even then, it wouldn’t have won them the war, only lengthened it.
AgreeablePie on
This is such a silly take.
OP, they thought more than once about it. If you look into it a little more maybe you’ll figure out why they chose “likely defeat” over “certain defeat, now”
As it turns out, it was still the worse outcome, but that’s a hindsight discovery.
Mysterious_Silver_27 on
Heck, if Japan only invaded Philippines without touching Pearl Harbor maybe the American would be more willing to do a peace talk.
Joshwoum8 on
Nothing like apologists claiming Japan’s only option was aggression.
mattd1972 on
Given their options, it did make sense. They needed to ensure the US couldn’t do anything for at least a year. Eliminating their fleet would have done that. Unfortunately, they missed the carriers.
Jaimaster on
“Hahaha they missed the carriers so stupid epic fail”
*ignores internationally consistent naval doctrine in 1941 was that carriers were scouts and supports to the battleships, and battleships were all that mattered*
“And so stupid they thought they could win hahahaha”
*ignores that imperial Japan launched this attack with German troops fighting in the outer suburbs of Moscow and Russia on the brink of collapse*
“But American aid saved russia so pearl lost axis the war lol”
Nearly no lend lease hit russia before late 1942, and over 90% was after the battle of Stalingrad ended.
19 Comments
Don’t touch our fuckin boats.
It wasn’t bombing pearl harbour that screwed them, it was the fact the aircraft carriers weren’t there when it happened.
US oil sanctions basically made their empire unsustainable. FDR knew this when he implemented them. The American public didn’t support going to war, but FDR figured he’d just piss off the Axis until they declared war on us. This is why he did the lend lease program in Europe as well.
even Yamamoto thought it was a bad idea
To be fair they recieved no such note from no one
“*What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible that they do not realize that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?*” -Churchill
I cannot remember his name, but a member of the Japanese navy studied in the US and UK and (very simply paraphrased) was asked if they could beat the American Pacific fleet. He basically said yeah but that by the time they destroy the first one, the Americans would have built three more.
Japan lost to the American industrial complex.
Japan knew it was a terrible decision, but had to make a move to keep their war machine running on resources, those resources were located in allied territories.
The Japanese general staff realised while planning, everything would have to go perfect for them in order to win.
But that it was better to act now then to wait and losing even more strength.
They had no choice
Everyone gangsta till the Enola Gay rocks up and drops a star on yo ass.
They touched the boats
If I remember correctly, Yamamoto gave Japan about 6 months to get America to negotiate after the first strike before things would go down hill. He knew they wouldn’t keep up with American logistics once it got going. The goal was never to defeat/invade America, just to make sure the US couldn’t interfere with their expansion. To that end they had to get as much territory as quickly as possible, make the cost of war appear too high, and end the conflict at the negotiating table before America could hit them with a tsunami of supplies, ships, and bodies.
Given anti-war sentiment and the age of the US Pacific fleet it wasn’t the worst idea. Yamamoto still didn’t like it, but we saw how that turned out in the end
It was kind of a bad idea, but there weren’t many other options for Imperial Japan if they wanted to keep their war machine going. Allied territory had resourses they needed, and in an ideal world for them, an attack on Pearl Harbor would cripple the US Pacific fleet and by Japan time to fortify their military to be in a more advantagous position.
Unfortunately for Japan, they didn’t do as much damage as they would have liked to the US pacific fleet, and no US aircraft carrier (with hindsight, by far the most important target to sink) was stationed in the port at the time of the attack. The US pacific fleet was not crippled and Japan payed the price. It was a gamble they just so happened to lose.
And there was no way Japan could have predicted that the US industrial complex would be beast enough to be able to pump out an aircraft carrier every month, even though they knew long term the US had better industry anyway; they didn’t know it was “aircraft carrier every month” good.
The attack could have been more successful, if the Japanese had hit the fuel storage that would have really crippled the Pacific fleet far more than losing ships. But even then, it wouldn’t have won them the war, only lengthened it.
This is such a silly take.
OP, they thought more than once about it. If you look into it a little more maybe you’ll figure out why they chose “likely defeat” over “certain defeat, now”
As it turns out, it was still the worse outcome, but that’s a hindsight discovery.
Heck, if Japan only invaded Philippines without touching Pearl Harbor maybe the American would be more willing to do a peace talk.
Nothing like apologists claiming Japan’s only option was aggression.
Given their options, it did make sense. They needed to ensure the US couldn’t do anything for at least a year. Eliminating their fleet would have done that. Unfortunately, they missed the carriers.
“Hahaha they missed the carriers so stupid epic fail”
*ignores internationally consistent naval doctrine in 1941 was that carriers were scouts and supports to the battleships, and battleships were all that mattered*
“And so stupid they thought they could win hahahaha”
*ignores that imperial Japan launched this attack with German troops fighting in the outer suburbs of Moscow and Russia on the brink of collapse*
“But American aid saved russia so pearl lost axis the war lol”
Nearly no lend lease hit russia before late 1942, and over 90% was after the battle of Stalingrad ended.
“PEARL WAS JAPANESE DEFEAT”
maximum Yankee cope levels achieved.